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Mechaniccal Scarecrow

17/08/2010 10:16

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Still looking for a Fringer GM for those who may be interested.

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We are looking for another Fringer GM. Anyone interested please apply.

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Star Wars: A Fading Hope Chat » OOC » Feedback

Jedi becoming its own venue?

Do you want this or not?

Yes	38%	[8 Votes]
No	62%	[13 Votes]
Total Votes : 21

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Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 26-07-2010 01:36 PM (#1)

Anyone can v ote or comment. Its is a site wide discussion/topic not just a few players who play or want to play Jedi.

It's come up as a topic ranging from upset players to new players downright refusing to play here. The current Restriction in Jedi. I've placed the limit for several reasons.

1. Jedi aren't common. Non-jedi force sensitives and darkside cults are prevalent in the lack of an Order expanding the Galaxy from Core worlds to Outer Rim Territories and Unknown Regions.

2. Jedi are exceptional. Not just anyone can be a Jedi. Claiming a title and being a "true" Jedi are vastly different.

3. The Praxeum was only restored 8 years ago In the Setting. With only in the last 2 years did Obi-Wan arrive on the fledgling Rebel Alliance's doorstep and offering mutual aid and cooperation. Apprentices are few and far between. this isn't even including the great Purge nearly 2 decades ago.

Now I could probably come up with some more but I'll refrain. My suggestion is this. The jedi find an alternate planet (similar to what the sith venue has going on) and the restrictions are lifted. As many Jedi allowed as possible. Thoughts fellow players? I've also added a poll for the next 2 weeks to see what players would vote for. Yes it change the current setup and No is to keep things exactly as they are.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 26-07-2010 01:41 PM (#2)

Oh...for a quick reference. Sith nearly double Jedi in numbers at present.

I'd appreciate opinions/thoughts on the topic but they aren't required.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Val, 26-07-2010 01:45 PM (#3)

I'm concerned that dividing the game reduces chances for interaction.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Mr_Blues, 26-07-2010 02:00 PM (#4)

One thing to remember is that in most game systems characters are not the norm, they are the exceptions... there may only be a limited number of Jedi in the universe, but it just so happens that the players want to be them. Having only 1 Jedi I think is fair but breaking them into a wholly separate game A- Breaks from the current established system and would vastly alter some currently established character interactions and B- Breaks the Rebel venue in "half".

And as I understand it the Sith venue is going to be allowed to interact with the rest of the PC population at some future point... Or will it now become a completely isolated with no future interaction planned?

Edited by Mr_Blues 26-07-2010 02:17 PM

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 26-07-2010 02:04 PM (#5)

Mr_Blues wrote:
One thing to remember is that in most game systems characters are not the norm, they are the exceptions... there may only be a limited number of Jedi in the universe, but it just so happens that the players want to be them. Having only 1 Jedi I think is fair but breaking them into a wholly separate game A) Breaks from the current established system and would vastly alter some currently established character interactions and

Breaks the Rebel venue in "half".

The reason for the current cap on Jedi is to avoid the "street corner Jedi" style of play. Where they are so common you could throw a rock down the street and hit at least 2 or 3. However I'm fine with raising this limit but I want to avoid that style of play.

Mr_Blues wrote:
And as I understand it the Sith venue is going to be allowed to interact with the rest of the PC population at some future point... Or will it now become a completely isolated with no future interaction planned?

The Sith venue and the Jedi venue (if it is separated) will still interact with Nar shaddaa it just won't be their primary location/base.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: recoveringgeek, 26-07-2010 02:17 PM (#6)

[Damascus Wylder] 11:15: Burne, you could meet them halfway, and have an open call for players for a small window (2 weeks, etc) and see how many applicants you get. You could also specify that you won't sanction every character, but will review each one for balance, creativity, and depth.

[Damascus Wylder] 11:16: Once that window is closed, it remains closed again.

[Burne] 11:16: Damascus> another good idea. please post it in the thread

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: GeneralVryth, 26-07-2010 02:35 PM (#7)

Honestly I think creating a special venue for the Jedi is a really bad idea. Part of being a Jedi is in theory working for it, if you want a "quick and easy path" then there is a Sith venue just for that and the mentality should fit in perfectly.

Beyond that I share Blues concerns about shattering current character interactions and essentially cutting the number of Rebels in half.

Finally I am sure I will post a lot more on this topic later, but those are just initial thoughts, though for the record I do like something closer to recoveringgeek's idea about a temporary opening for Jedi in the Rebel game if there is so many that want to play one.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Amanda, 26-07-2010 03:23 PM (#8)

Alright, I am going to be very selfish here and say that my concern with it is that any Jedi who has worked hard to establish a cover, to forge ties with the fringers and the rest of the Rebellion, completely gets screwed over if you say 'ok all Jedi must now be on Endor! (or whatever moon we're on).

The idea for a lot of the Jedi is they should be trying to pass themselves off as nonJedi.

I do think that there could be a seperate Jedi venue, one for people who under the current rules couldn't play a Jedi and want to play one. It just adds more characters & more work to the mix though.
-Amanda who plays Tasha

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Mechaniccal Scarecrow, 26-07-2010 03:32 PM (#9)

I think its a great chance for players to learn new aspects of the game. granted it needs to be watched carefully, but some people don't like the sith mentality and don't rp well with people wh inherantly are snide ic.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: RegretNot, 26-07-2010 05:11 PM (#10)

I can see both points in the worry of the jedi venue splitting off and tearing apart relationships and hurting the numbers and activity in the rebel venue.

However if Jedi are allowed to be made freely with no restrictions they don't need to be in Nar Shadda in a primarily spy location as one lightsaber fight in the middle of public is all they need for bad stuff to come down on the Rebel venue. The idea of a two week period of jedi concepts being evaluated when submitted might work. I would say that people must be aware that in that waive period that the Rebel GM can reject any concept for its lack of fit in the setting. Then there is always the possibility of making a rebel with the possibility of buying force sensitivity with the Rebel GMs okay.

"Many of the truths we cling to depend on our point of view." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 26-07-2010 05:57 PM (#11)

A 2 week period of Jedi submission to which I pick and chose which Jedi concepts are allowed I'm not opposed to. I'd add a requirement to this though. What is your long term goals for the Jedi? Obviously things change during play but are you going for a more social char and negotiation or perhaps toward the typical lightsaber jockey which is too far overdone?

What we currently have is what could remain in place. Only way to become Jedi is to buy Force Sensitive at ether 2nd or 3rd level at my discretion as GM.

Last we go with the creation of a 4th venue. The Jedi venue which will be based of of Nar Shaddaa.

----

those seem to be the popular ideas/options. Thoughts anyone?

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 26-07-2010 05:59 PM (#12)

Mechaniccal Scarecrow wrote:
I think its a great chance for players to learn new aspects of the game. granted it needs to be watched carefully, but some people don't like the sith mentality and don't rp well with people wh inherantly are snide ic.

As long as it remains In Character, chars can (within reason) do what they want. Now could some thought posts for actual posts be lessened? I agree wholeheartedly on typing only actions and reasons not actual thoughts but I'll admit I've been guilty of it before though I try not to make that mistake.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Rebel, 26-07-2010 07:33 PM (#13)

Well right now I'm undecided on how I would like to vote.

I can understand the necessity and the worry that everyone will want to play a Jedi. I mean come on Jedi are pretty cool, but a lot of folks also realize that there are those like Lando, Han, and others who aren't Jedi who are just as bad ass.

My thoughts on the matter is, if we are to become a subfaction of the Rebellion, then moving them off planet wouldn't be such a grand idea. One of the things that has always been pressed in this setting has been for the Jedi and the Special Ops to blend in with the masses on Nar Shadda, that also included having cover stories, finding out intelligent and creative ways of dealing with things without pulling out your lightsaber or weapon, and working to protect, patrol, defend, and help the moon in and of itself.

If we were to move the Jedi away, we lose a certain aspect unto ourselves and a small bit of our characters in the process. I enjoy the dynamic, the controversy of being such a character on the moon, and the ways we have to over come being on Nar Shadda and doing what we do.

My suggestion would be if they did split off, they would be... and have their own base somewhere on Nar Shadda or near it (on a ship or something), that way they can be part of the main game, have the abilit to interact with others on the moon, but at the same time having more ample space to go and do what needs to be. Instead of Special ops being a mixture of both, they work in tandem at times, but they answer to different people.

This way, you could also offer up more Jedi spots, at the same time not detracting from the Special Ops section of Nar Shadda, and we can all seem to find some sort of commonality amongst it.

I know that some may think "well if the Sith are seperated then the JEdi should be too" but that doesn't really work, for the most part becaue the Jedi were always part of the game, while the Sith are just starting up on the chat.

If we could do it that way, I'm all for it, but I don't really see myself being able to say "sure, it's a great idea to seprate them" if they have to go off world.. It'd become monotonous for roleplay and we loose out on so many expierences -of- Nar Shadda.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Frost, 29-07-2010 06:26 PM (#14)

I would like to change my vote to 'Yes'. please section Jedi off from the rebels. kinda makes playing a non jedi rebel pointless, since everything you can do, they can do better.....just saying. defeats the purpose of playing anything un-force related.

just my opinion.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 29-07-2010 06:36 PM (#15)

Ok...so 9 for and 8 opposed?

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: dragongoddess, 29-07-2010 06:48 PM (#16)

actually I think it would put it back at a tie

"He ran into my knife.. he ran into my knife TEN times."

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: brentb, 29-07-2010 06:49 PM (#17)

I can see both some good arguments for and against splitting the venue completely from the rest of the rebels. But I think at this point complete segregation is abit too much. I believe that the biggest problem is that the jedi that are active are the highest level characters in game and it might be abit intimidating.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: GeneralVryth, 29-07-2010 07:16 PM (#18)

Frost wrote:
please section Jedi off from the rebels. kinda makes playing a non jedi rebel pointless, since everything you can do, they can do better.....just saying. defeats the purpose of playing anything un-force related.

just my opinion.

I would dissagree with this completely. To preface realize I was somsoen who spoke out against how powerful Force users can be, several times at lower levels. The reality though is once you get to the 5+ level range unless someone is really trying to break the Force its effects begin to greatly diminish, and can even get to the point where the Force takes a bit of a back seat to more soldier like characters in combat.

Honestly as far as Force users doing "everything better" brent hit it on the nose, the highest level characters just happen to be sensitive to the Force, and are better more due to their level than anything else.

As I said earlier I think the suggestion of a 2 week application process would be best, it would give players with good and unique Jedi concepts a chance to start off as a Jedi, it would give the Jedi some fresh blood, and it would allow all of the relationships currently formed amongst the Rebels to stay intact, and it would hopefully wouldn't create a surge of new Jedi that would make the Jedi to Rebel ratio as bad as it has been in the past.

Edited by GeneralVryth 29-07-2010 07:21 PM

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Rebel, 29-07-2010 07:52 PM (#19)

You know...

The thing is...

The Jedi don't have every available avenue open to them at their disposal when things hit the fan on Nar Shadda.

They can't reveal themselves, not just because their rebels but because there are bounty hunter guilds actively seeking them out.

Jedi have to be crafty, have to somehow fix it to where they can use their abilities and it doesn't always happen. They have to think outside the box.

It's not like they're these super de duper awesome magical things..

They're hunted, more so than even the Alliance.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: bowgentle, 30-07-2010 01:26 AM (#20)

More than anything this is an issue about players just wanting to play a very unique type of character. Sure, everyone has their own reasons why they might want to play a Jedi. It doesn't really matter if the current setting means Jedi need to stay hidden or discreet. Some just want the option to play one because they can be fun and challenging. There is a mystic or spiritual side of them that is very interesting and they are the ultimate good guys. That being said, there will always be hard feelings when there appears to be "haves" and "have nots." I do agree though that only solid Rpers who take the challenge serious should generally play Jedi but those that don't cut the mustard should then suffer IC consequences such as their training being discontinued, death, or some other result depending on their "lackings."

This is a tough topic only because the ST's here are trying to harmonize the setting with the time period as it is recorded. That being the case, there are always ways to work around such problems and the foundation of every chat is the players. When players are not happy chats die unless the goal is simply to maintain a small and select player-base. Just some thoughts to consider.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Val, 01-08-2010 10:26 PM (#21)

It would be a sad thing to suddenly lose the interactions and friendships that have developed between the fringers and others. We have a good thing going and there are even ship crews that would be broken up by this. I know my enjoyment of the game would be seriously dampened by dividing the Jedi from the fringers.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Back_In_Black, 03-08-2010 01:00 AM (#22)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltD2outNAM&feature=watch_response

is basically why everyone wants to play the jedi or sith..

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: dragongoddess, 03-08-2010 02:11 AM (#23)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltD2outNAM&feature=watch_response

is basically why everyone wants to play the jedi or sith..

I have to disagree there. Not everyone wants to be a jedi or sith. Yes I play a sith but my reasons for playing one are different from others I'm sure... personally I have no desire to play a jedi

despite what so many thing, they are not beat all end all of the star wars universe.. there are so many other classes out there that are just as good and just as fun to play and personally I find them more challenging to play.. but hey, to each his own..

separating the jedi venue from that of the rebels.. my thoughts on this are as follows...

separating the jedi from the rebels is like cutting one leg from a ballet dancer.. the two go in tandem really even though they are technically two different entities.. an idea though.. perhaps if new jedi are allowed then it be those jedi that are separate from nar shaddaa as they would new jedi and need to be trained and such? just a thought *shrug* though I know that would limit their rp to other jedi there but it's no different then the limits that would be put on those already in play

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 03-08-2010 08:47 AM (#24)

Uhm....an inspirational video is why everyone wants to play jedi/sith?

Jen that is one option i will not consider. All Jedi players will be treated equally. Not only the old vs the new (if there are to be any new).

Still with one week to go we've got 9 that say Yes and 10 that say No.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Amanda, 07-08-2010 02:18 AM (#25)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltD2outNAM&feature=watch_response

Well as cool as that video is that's not why I wanted to play a Jedi, certainly not a Jedi who could probably be beaten in combat by any combat oriented build.

I wanted to play a Jedi because at this point in time in the history of the Galaxy the Jedi are lost. They are a hooky religion that's hunted by the Empire and misunderstood. We can't even bust out the light sabers and go "all Jedi" on things most of the time because then some bounty hunter will come and haul us off for a reward. Most of the Jedi history is lost or corrupted. The few stragglers that survive have to figure out how to make their Order and their Philosophy work in a Galaxy that fears and resents them. That's an interesting story to me and I wanted to play it.

I don't want the venues to split, because I think the interaction between the characters is too interesting. The Tension between the "wizards" and Spec Ops as they try to work together is good RP because there is a lot of potential for conflict of philosophy.

I don't agree that the non-force using rebels are pointless. From a pure mechanics standpoint do you know how hard some skills are to acquire as a Jedi? I may have a high persuasion skill, but my Gather Information is awful. I am never going to have Tasha be as good as a information gatherer as say any of the characters who are scoundrels or nobles and have that in their trained skills and if I do it means I've given up some other powers for it.

From an RP standpoint, I think all Jedi does not nearly have the same level of interest for me as a Rebellion game that includes some Jedi.

Edited by Amanda 07-08-2010 02:22 AM

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Burne, 09-08-2010 01:53 PM (#26)

Everyone makes valid points on both sides I will agree. the voting time is over as it is 2 weeks today. Those against this change win. 11 opposed vs 9 for.

Now I ask this. Is there a means to compromise this? I've seen several ideas posted up. By all means...please share any other ideas you all have. So far we have two other ideas suggested. Thoughts on them please.

1. A 2 week period of Jedi submission to which I pick and chose which Jedi concepts are allowed I'm not opposed to. I'd add a requirement to this though. What is your long term goals for the Jedi? Obviously things change during play but are you going for a more social char and negotiation or perhaps toward the typical lightsaber jockey which is too far overdone?

2. What we currently have is what could remain in place. Only way to become Jedi is to buy Force Sensitive at ether 2nd or 3rd level at my discretion as GM.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: RegretNot, 09-08-2010 03:46 PM (#27)

I would think the 2 week period would be the best way to do this honestly, esspecially with the exsistence of the praxeum.

"Many of the truths we cling to depend on our point of view." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Amanda, 09-08-2010 04:17 PM (#28)

I would go through a two-week period and have Jedi applicated provide a short character questionnaire to fill out. This would allow you to review the character's back story and would would help to ensure that the Jedi character would fit into this game as a whole.

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: Back_In_Black, 11-08-2010 07:25 PM (#29)

if so many people want a 2 week trial period, then why is everyone voting no..

Edited by Back_In_Black 11-08-2010 07:25 PM

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RE: Jedi becoming its own venue?

by: brentb, 11-08-2010 08:00 PM (#30)

people voted no to seperating the jedi from the rest of the game, not to a 2 week waiting period

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